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refill re fill insert d1

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#1 IgorS

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:05 PM

Yes :) I was worried at first, but I can confirm blue pen refill works well.

 

Just type "Zebra 4C-0.7" on ebay.com

 

 

Regards,

Igor


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#2 Splitter

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 01:16 PM

Hi Folks,

 

I purchased a whole bunch of refills for my pen and wanted to start a thread discussing the best refills to make this great pen an even better writing experience.

 

I found this blog: http://penpaperpenci...fills-part-one/ and went searching for a few refills that came recommended. I am in the US, so Jetpens worked best for me: http://www.jetpens.com/ but if you're in the UK then there is Cult Pens: http://www.cultpens....pen-refills and if you're anywhere else, then I'm sure you can find a good retailer or online shop.

 

I purchased:

- Zebra ESB-0.7 Emulsion

- Zebra 4C-0.7 which I found out is what comes with the pen

- Zebra JSB-0.4 Gel

- Zebra JSB-0.5 Gel

- Uni SXR-200-07 Jetstream

- Uni SXR-200-05 Jetstream

- Monteverde Soft Roll 0.7mm

 

I wrote a couple of pages comparing these refills and you can see them below:

 

Work_Book_1_p33_201503312239_35_zpsl1ntm

 

 

Work_Book_1_p34_201503312239_36_zpsuhmkz

 

I have installed the Montevarde Soft Roll as my weapon of choice going forwards and will update after some time using it.

 

So, what have you all found to be the best refill? Thoughts or comments you'd like to add? Let's make this a great resource for everyone with this great tool.

 

D1 Refill Options:

-          Zebra

-          Uni

-          Schmidt

-          Parker

-          Private Reserve

-          Kaweco

-          Rotring

-          Pilot

-          Monteverde

-          Mont Blanc (Mozart refill, not advertised as D1)

-          Lamy M21

-          ACME

-          Aurora

-          Caran d'Ache

-          Cross

-          Retro 1951

-          Pelikan

 

From here: http://www.wellappoi...and-ballpoints/

I also found the following list of D1 refills

-          Acme Black 4FP Four-Function Pen Ballpoint Pen Refill

-          Acme Highlighter 4FP Four-Function Pen Multi Functional Pen Refill

-          Aurora Mini Medium Point Ballpoint Pen Refill

-          Caran D’ache Ecridor XS Mini Refill

-          Cross Matrix Ballpoint Pen Refill

-          Cross Micro Ballpoint Pen Refill

-          Kaweco D1 Soul Ballpoint Refill

-          Monteverde Soft Roll Ballpoint Pen Refill – D1 (628)

-          Ohto R-4C7NP Needle-Point Ballpoint Pen Refill

-          Parker Mini Ballpoint Refills

-          Parker Vector 3-in-1 Ballpoint Refills

-          Pelikan 38 Ballpoint Refills

-          Pilot BRF-8M Ballpoint Pen Refill

-          Platinum BSP-60 Series

-          Platinum BSP-100

-          Retro 1951 D-1 Ballpoint Refill

-          Rotring Tikky 3-in-1 2-Color Ballpoint Refills

-          Tombow VS Ballpoint Pen Refill – D1

-          Uni SXR-200 Jetstream Ballpoint Multi Pen Refill (0.5 and 0.7mm)

-          Zebra 4C-0.7 Ballpoint Pen Refill

-          Zebra Sharbo X Ballpoint Multi Pen Refill Component – D1

-          Zebra Sharbo X Gel Ink Multi Pen Refill Component – D1

 

And here is another great reference and shop: http://www.refillfin...size-guide.html Each of the links under the D1 will take you to their product offerings


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#3 Guest_luciobrigido_*

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:06 PM

what a great post! I live outside US and will search for Monteverde and Zebra Emulsion! Thanks a lot.

 

best regards,

lucio

brazil



#4 neoLAB North America

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:06 AM

Splitter

Thanks for starting this thread.

I personally am a Mont Blanc fan and really enjoy their version of D1 refills. It is the refill for their Mozart ballpoint.

I would be a little cautious with Gel refills as they are not 100% proven.

Regards

NeoLAB
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#5 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:19 PM

This post deserves a BIG LIKE!

 

Thank you



#6 Splitter

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:39 PM

Neolab, have you tried others to compare to the Mont blanc for reference?

I also would not recommend the gel pen. The 0.5 was the only one worth writing with but I can imagine a refill would only write a very few number of pages before it was empty, making them very expensive.

 

So far I have not found a single good reference for shops to purchase refills. Amazon is very good, but I have had to use multiple searches to find stores with well priced options. I have updated the first post with a bunch more refill options.


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#7 neoLAB North America

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 04:34 AM

Neolab, have you tried others to compare to the Mont blanc for reference?

I also would not recommend the gel pen. The 0.5 was the only one worth writing with but I can imagine a refill would only write a very few number of pages before it was empty, making them very expensive.

 

So far I have not found a single good reference for shops to purchase refills. Amazon is very good, but I have had to use multiple searches to find stores with well priced options. I have updated the first post with a bunch more refill options.

 

Splitter,

 

I personally have used Cross and Lamy.  My personal preference is Mont Blanc.  In the US, refills can be purchased at Staples, Office Max/Depot.  Actually pretty much any office supply store.

 

Regards

NeoLAB


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#8 peglegrook

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 06:47 AM

The Jet Stream 0.7 has been my favorite so far.  You can also find these on Amazon.  The only catch is that the refills I have been using have a slight rattle while writing.  I've heard some people use tape, but I'm not found of that idea.


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#9 Young Kyun Rha

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 01:44 PM

The Jet Stream 0.7 has been my favorite so far.  You can also find these on Amazon.  The only catch is that the refills I have been using have a slight rattle while writing.  I've heard some people use tape, but I'm not found of that idea.

 

Hello peglegrook, 

 

Thank you very much for your opinion. We just wanted to add an important point on your thread.

 

We  strongly discourage users from applying tapes on pen tips. This can greatly reduce stroke and pressure recognition accuracy of the pen which will decrease user satisfaction.

 

Best regards,

NeoLAB


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#10 Splitter

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 10:12 AM

So today I took delivery of Mont Blanc and Lamy refills for the pen to see how they work out. Page of testing below

 

Work%20Book%202_p17_20150408_zpsppooo2ir

 

Ultimately I do think it's almost a draw between the Monteverde and the Mont Blanc. I do have a slight preference for the feel of the Monteverde and a slight preference for a marginally sharper and darker line by the Mont Blanc. It's Monteverde by a whisker from me and so I asked my wife and she had the same thoughts after testing both.

 

The Lamy is perfectly fine, so are most of the others except the very fine point pens, but these 2 are head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Splitter.


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#11 neoLAB North America

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 02:42 AM

Hello all,

 

After some fairly exhaustive testing of all the D1 ink refills out there our engineers have published the following list of approved products:

 

Zebra - 4C Series

Mitsubishi - SE Series

Kaweco 

Parker 

Pilot

Staedtler

Sailorpen 

Rotring

Caran D' Ache

Kyocera

Shachihata

Visconti

Yard-O-Led

 

The above inks have been found to provide the best overall experience when used in conjunction with our N2 pen.  

 

We did test several of the other manufacturers discussed on this forum but over extended use we did not find them to meet the qualifications that we set out.

 

Regards

 

NeoLAB

 

 

 


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#12 Splitter

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 02:56 AM

Here is the officially recommended list by NeoLab

 

http://www.neosmartp...d-approved-ink/

 

I note that Monteverde and Mont Blanc are not on the list, despite from my testing being the best of the lot for the writing feel, interesting.



#13 Splitter

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 02:59 AM

Hi Folks,

 

Thanks for taking the time to make the list - this is a significant step above what your competitor offers and I'm sure will be appreciated by many.

 

Can you please provide some insight in to the testing criteria that was used to generate this list? I haven't used many on the list, but of the ones I have, the physical writing experience I found to be better with other inks not on this list. What about these ink's make them better than the rest as an overall product?



#14 Young Kyun Rha

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 04:58 PM

Here is the officially recommended list by NeoLab

 

http://www.neosmartp...d-approved-ink/

 

I note that Monteverde and Mont Blanc are not on the list, despite from my testing being the best of the lot for the writing feel, interesting.

Hello Splitter, 

 

Thank you for you feedback. 

 

For clarification, the list provided includes refills that we considered to be most commonly accessible by ordinary users and that were tested to be fully compatible.

 

We had checked on Mont Blanc, but there were instances of minor stroke misses in intense note taking or sketches due to the specific compositions within its ink that disturbs tracing. 

We had not checked on Monteverde, so thank you for your excellent opinion.

 

The list provided is not a completely exhaustive one, but a guidance to tell users some pen refills that are guaranteed to be fully compatible with N2.

 

Hope this helps:)

 

Best regards,

NeoLAB.



#15 Young Kyun Rha

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 05:26 PM

Hi Folks,

 

Thanks for taking the time to make the list - this is a significant step above what your competitor offers and I'm sure will be appreciated by many.

 

Can you please provide some insight in to the testing criteria that was used to generate this list? I haven't used many on the list, but of the ones I have, the physical writing experience I found to be better with other inks not on this list. What about these ink's make them better than the rest as an overall product?

Hello Splitter, 

 

We appreciate your passion on our products:) Thank you for your active feedback on D1 refills. 

 

The criteria for evaluation has been:

 

1. The precise length and width of the pen tip

2. Carbon substance included in the ink

 

We believe the first standard is quite intuitive, so let us explain number 2.

 

If the pen ink includes carbon substance, it may cause distractions in stroke tracing. Although this may not stand out, it can be expressed in the form of minor stroke losses. 

 

Hope this helps:)

 

Best regards,

NeoLAB



#16 Splitter

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 10:19 PM

there were instances of minor stroke misses in intense note taking or sketches due to the specific compositions within its ink that disturbs tracing. 

 

I had noticed this with both Mont Blanc and Monteverde and thought it was something that was faulty with the pen. I will keep an eye on it. Real shame, as the ink is very nice. It has not been a big issue for me, usually only very small mistakes such as a stroke or dot of a scrawly 'i'



#17 richimages

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 04:35 AM

I've read this thread ... and I have a question about the suggested/recommended list of refills. 

 

What really causes some of the refills to slightly miss some of the strokes?  Apparently is has nothing to do with the ink hitting the paper at all.  I say this from the experience of my original refill running out of ink and skipping for quite a while.   It seemed to run out of ink early ... so I stubbornly kept trying to use it to get it going smoothly again ... the Zebra refill skipped writing on the paper off and on for two complete pages - while I had the pen paired with the app. I was in a work meeting taking notes ... it was a weird experience, I was writing on the paper with the pen, but no marks were left - however, the Neo Notes app never missed a stroke.  It seems the pen recognized the small dot patter on the writing paper, and does a fantastic job correcting slanted projections to determine where the tip is contacting the paper.  My digital copy of the marks intended to be made on the paper seemed perfect ...  I was writing with the feedback of watching the Neo Notes app verse the actual paper I was trying to write on.

 

So, this is why I ask the question - if certain refill are missing some of the accuracy of the strokes, would this really be due to:

(1) speed of the movement of the stroke?

(2) inconsistent pressure of the start, release, and movement during the stroke to signal contact with the paper ?

(3) design of the end of the refill that meets some "switch" in the refill hole of the pen to signal that "contact with the paper" is made - perhaps not meeting that "switch" accurately?

 

It seems that one can take a refill that is totally our of ink, and go through the motions of making virtual marks on paper - the digital app seems to record the contact with no problem ...

 

Curious about this, and what it means for selecting some better refill over some other refill. 

Recap:  What helps the experience of some refill recording strokes more accurately than others ?

 

thanks for any helpful explanation of what I have experienced ...

 

richard 



#18 neoLAB North America

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 02:10 AM

I've read this thread ... and I have a question about the suggested/recommended list of refills. 

 

What really causes some of the refills to slightly miss some of the strokes?  Apparently is has nothing to do with the ink hitting the paper at all.  I say this from the experience of my original refill running out of ink and skipping for quite a while.   It seemed to run out of ink early ... so I stubbornly kept trying to use it to get it going smoothly again ... the Zebra refill skipped writing on the paper off and on for two complete pages - while I had the pen paired with the app. I was in a work meeting taking notes ... it was a weird experience, I was writing on the paper with the pen, but no marks were left - however, the Neo Notes app never missed a stroke.  It seems the pen recognized the small dot patter on the writing paper, and does a fantastic job correcting slanted projections to determine where the tip is contacting the paper.  My digital copy of the marks intended to be made on the paper seemed perfect ...  I was writing with the feedback of watching the Neo Notes app verse the actual paper I was trying to write on.

 

So, this is why I ask the question - if certain refill are missing some of the accuracy of the strokes, would this really be due to:

(1) speed of the movement of the stroke?

(2) inconsistent pressure of the start, release, and movement during the stroke to signal contact with the paper ?

(3) design of the end of the refill that meets some "switch" in the refill hole of the pen to signal that "contact with the paper" is made - perhaps not meeting that "switch" accurately?

 

It seems that one can take a refill that is totally our of ink, and go through the motions of making virtual marks on paper - the digital app seems to record the contact with no problem ...

 

Curious about this, and what it means for selecting some better refill over some other refill. 

Recap:  What helps the experience of some refill recording strokes more accurately than others ?

 

thanks for any helpful explanation of what I have experienced ...

 

richard 

 

 

Richard,

 

Every ink manufacturer uses different raw materials in their inks.  The inks that we have tested and approved have fairly low levels of carbon in them.  The inks we do not recommend have higher levels of carbon which effects the ability of our optic to track your strokes on our pattern paper.

 

We want our users to have a 100% representation of their handwriting in the application so we point our customers to the inks on our recommended list.

 

As an aside, we often get asked for a pencil version of our pen.  For these same reasons that would be very difficult (Carbon/lead content)

 

Regards

 

NeoLAB



#19 richimages

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 11:56 PM

What happens in the app when your pen starts skipping ink?  This is interesting, and this post answers this question.

 

There are two attachments to this post:  


        a photo of the actual page ( downsized).

        a screen grab from an iPad (again, downsized).

 

(I've also numbered the lines - make for easy location comparisons for the app's version to the paper version of the page.)

 

The photo (of the paper version) demonstrates that the refill is skipping badly ... in some cases, whole words are not marked on the page with the ink.

 

The second image is a screen grab from the iPad - every stroke was recored by the app.   There are no skipped marks in the app's digital version.  So, the fact that some inks have more/less carbon components in it that interferes with the tracking - is that concern for sketches and drawings where one would go back over some marks already made on the page?   I'm just wanting to understand why some inks are more recommended than others ... as the camera does not necessary seem to need the ink to be actually "marking" on the page in order to have the stroke recorded.

 

Any further information is greatly appreciated.

 

I would guess that the refill tube needs to hit some "switch" inside of the pen with some threshold amount of pressure to let the pen know that the paper is being contacted ... then the camera starts recording, and corrects projection based on the dot fingerprint of the page ... and strokes are recorded.  But I may be wrong in my guessing of how this technology is working ... 

 

Again obviously ink is not needed to "mark" the page for the product to work.

 

Thanks for any followup info ...

Attached Files



#20 neoLAB North America

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 02:15 AM

What happens in the app when your pen starts skipping ink?  This is interesting, and this post answers this question.

 

There are two attachments to this post:  


        a photo of the actual page ( downsized).

        a screen grab from an iPad (again, downsized).

 

(I've also numbered the lines - make for easy location comparisons for the app's version to the paper version of the page.)

 

The photo (of the paper version) demonstrates that the refill is skipping badly ... in some cases, whole words are not marked on the page with the ink.

 

The second image is a screen grab from the iPad - every stroke was recored by the app.   There are no skipped marks in the app's digital version.  So, the fact that some inks have more/less carbon components in it that interferes with the tracking - is that concern for sketches and drawings where one would go back over some marks already made on the page?   I'm just wanting to understand why some inks are more recommended than others ... as the camera does not necessary seem to need the ink to be actually "marking" on the page in order to have the stroke recorded.

 

Any further information is greatly appreciated.

 

I would guess that the refill tube needs to hit some "switch" inside of the pen with some threshold amount of pressure to let the pen know that the paper is being contacted ... then the camera starts recording, and corrects projection based on the dot fingerprint of the page ... and strokes are recorded.  But I may be wrong in my guessing of how this technology is working ... 

 

Again obviously ink is not needed to "mark" the page for the product to work.

 

Thanks for any followup info ...

 

Richard, you are correct in the statement that the ink is not critical in the writing on the paper page.  HOWEVER, the ink that is used is critical to the strokes that are transferred to the application because "bad' ink can block the optic of the pen.  So if you are using an ink we have determined to be "not" approved then it means that we have found that while the paper version itself looks ok the transferred version may well be incomplete.  The various materials used in the actual manufacturing of the ink are the issue. 

 

Further, the optic can be affected by bright light.  If there is interference to the optic then your written word will look complete but what is transferred might not be.  

 

The ink cartridge itself triggers a pressure sensor in the pen which is what activates the camera optic and tells the pen to start capturing your strokes.  The optic recognizes our pattern on the paper and convert your strokes to the digital version you see on the app.  Technically speaking you could actually write with no ink in the pen as long as you are making the contact to the paper with the empty cartridge.  Of course there would be no writing on your paper but there would be in the app. :)

 

Hope this explains a little better.

 

Regards

 

NeoLAB







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